With the startbutton as an extra image i could live. Looking forward to the release.

Damn hot vStyler, can't wait to see the Final Version. But i think the Startbutton could be better Some Windows Flag or something. But hey, ...it will be a Masterpiece, like everything you released. So, keep up the great work. 

I like the start button very very much, it is really nice to see something different than a winflag or orb!!!

Is there an echo in here?

Is there an echo in here?

Really cool John!

All right John..now you just hold it right there goddamit!

One thing is to tease, and this is beyond teasing 

yep, and its always been an option, I've just never been a fan of it, however for this particular config, with light and dark substyles, it is an option I am willing to put forth.. for the sake of mankind .. and my own personal sanity, cos i gotta tell ya, start buttons, done well, theme after theme.. is not easy.

Now this is gonna be one helluva skin, I can tell!  

I've added an extra alternative startbutton in the screeny above ^^

Looks great!

Yeah...I have a special folder just for startbuttons which is usually one of the first things to get replaced when there's a windows flag in a skin. Some times they look good...other times it's like...Oh no...thats gotta go!

k, so how about minmaxclose buttons that don't look just like every other one....and just like the default Win 7?

Back in the dim dark past people showed real diversity by even moving them....elsewhere.

I guess my interpretation of 'far away as possible' is too literal.

Come on, man.... function is not your one and only God.  Art [skinning] is creativity not practical mediocrity....

Push the envelope....

Oh i could push it to places its never been Paul.. Unfortunately balancing design, usability and widespread appeal via conformity is where I have to operate.

See.. I could move them.. and I'd get.. how about a substyle with normal positioned ones???

Well, when we get down to skinning one OS I might think about substyles to accomodate everyone, until then its just not possible and stay efficient businesswise.

I already make less than part time work flipping tacos and thats working all day, everyday.

Actually as far as I know, I think the only place you can move titlebuttons to now is within the top titlebar. Not much room to be creative. Left.. or Right?

Shapewise, these are somewhat similar to 7 intentionally, I happen to think that teh Aero design ie; shape, is the most confortable titlebar button config I have ever used.. Material wise, mine is not the same at all.

Basically, if you stray too far from familiarity, you rapidly narrow your overall consumer appeal.

Think about it, when was the last time u saw Mike, Dani, Ross, Tim etc pushing these envelopes?

Its just not popular.

What you see above is my current vision for what i think people will like.

Would I like to push it more.. yes, I would, Do I have the luxury right now? Well, between the aforementioned.. the state of the OS and SKS\WB...no.. mores the pity.

but I'm still young... right??  

Yes....there's still time to save your soul...

I haven't done a WB skin in ages...but I'm fairly sure you can still move them anywhere...sides...bottom, etc.

You know....there's a world out there where you can actually be proud that your WB is not popular....where people may concede it is well executed and/or unique....popularity is merely for the commercial and commercialism sacrifices just too much to be the sole tenet of design ALL the time.

Popularity doesn't define how 'good' anything is....just how popular it is.....hence the tag.

The only 'design element' that is really dodgey to ignore is the default windows light-source....where to do so confuses the heck out of the result if/when put alongside elements not skinned by the WB....tends to make a bellybutton look like an 'outie' when it's supposed to be an 'innie'.

I'm looking forward to the day when you say "stuff popularity....I'm going to design purely for design's sake" ...

In Architecture you have [usually] 'one client' for whom you design.  What you create only needs to be 'conservative/mediocre' if part of the brief is that the client will be quite transient and thus the building needs to be 'popularly saleable'.

If they [the client/s] will be the sole user....in other words it's designed for THEM, not others then envelopes get pushed.

Gladly.

Design should have an underlying subtext...."fuck conservatism" ....

yeah...but it's a hungry world...kids still in the nest...

I do think blinds like VOX  and Outer Limits show tremendous creativity....those titlebuttons in VOX...are just incredible...

I think the envelope has been pushed more than most...but I too..would like to see a no holds barred vSkin....though I think it would have to be an XP skin....hopefully...circumstances will allow that at some stage....