Seems the other thread is borked for most of us.
Now.. where were we?
ok. a lot of people, including myself, have made some statements that can be taken as personal attacks in this thread and the other beck thread. i don't care for beck. actually, i think he's a joke and would tell him to his face. but, and it's a big 'but', i do respect the people here on wc tremendously even though i sometimes disagree politically with some of them. to that end, i want to apologize to anyone who my disgust for beck, hannity, limbaugh, coulture, savage, and the ilk may have been aimed at. again, to those i may have offended, my sincerest apologies.
yep...there's a light substyle to be skinned....
NOT!!
read the whole post S J N
vStyler, What i meant was I agree with you and you are not wrong. Everythig you have said here and on the other Glenn Beck post makes cents to me.
September 12, 2001 On September 12, 2001, the day after two planes crashed into the twin towers of the World Trade Center, killing over 3,000 people, an event took place at Snow Park, in Oakland, California, organized by Van Jones, the founder of the Ella Baker Center For Human Rights, along with STORM/Standing Together to Organize a Revolutionary Movement, a group of which he was a member. ************************************************************************ Source : Ella Baker Center for Human Rights PRESS RELEASE FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE-11-01 People Of Color Groups Gather to Stand In Solidarity With Arab Americans and to Mourn the East Coast Dead (OAKLAND) Community-based organizations led by people of color will hold a "Solidarity Gathering" and candle light vigil on Wednesday night to support the Arab American community, which is suffering from a tidal wave of bigotry in the wake of Tuesday's bombings in New York City and Washington, D.C. The "Solidarity Gathering" will take place at 7 p.m. on Wednesday, September 12, 2001. The location will be Snow Park, at 19th and Harrison, in downtown Oakland. Snow Park is about three blocks from the 17th Street BART Station, near the lake. The purpose of the gathering will be to give leaders from communities of color an opportunity to speak out in support of the Arab community, while condemning the attacks and mourning the dead. Among the organizations endorsing this gathering are: the Ella Baker Center for Human Rights, Let's Get Free, Youth Force Coalition, JustAct, Bay Area PoliceWatch, Underground Railroad and STORM/Standing Together to Organize a Revolutionary Movement. "Anti-Arab hostility is already reaching a fever pitch as pundits and common people alike rush to judgment that an Arab group is responsible for this tragedy," said Van Jones, national executive director of the Ella Baker Center for Human Rights. "We fear that an atmosphere is being created that will result in official and street violence against Arab men, women and children." "No matter who ultimately is to blame for these bombings, we cannot tolerate stereotypes and blanket attacks against any ethnic group," said Raquel of STORM. "And we especially don't want Asian-American, African-American, Latino or Native American communities getting pulled into a frenzy of hatred toward our sisters and brothers. We must stand together." Though people of color in particular will be invited to speak at the gathering, but everyone is welcome. ****************************************************************************************************************** This statement represents the postion of STORM/Standing Together to Organize a Revolutionary Movement. 9-11 ATTACKS: STORM's FOUR MAIN POINTS IN RESPONSE TO THE BOMBINGS OF THE WORLD TRADE CENTER & THE U.S. PENTAGON 1. Oppose terrorism, and build people's power: We mourn the loss of life and the great pain endured by those who have suffered as a result of these attacks. Those of us who desire a world free from exploitation and oppression must rely on the consciousness, capacity and confidence of working class and oppressed people to carry out our own liberation. There are no shortcuts in this process. Acts of terrorism against civilian targets do not advance this process, but retard it. We oppose the use of terror tactics - especially such tactics against civilian populations as destructive to the fundamental aims of the liberation movement. We must organize our people to liberate themselves with the clarity of their own minds, the courage of their own hearts and the work of their own hands. 2. Oppose the narrowing or elimination of the people's democratic rights: The U.S. government must stop using the suffering of the victims of these attacks as an excuse to narrow and eliminate the people's democratic rights. We oppose any and all efforts to increase the funding and authority of U.S. police and intelligence agencies as a "solution" to this crisis. We express our disgust at the present attempts by the U.S. security and surveillance establishment to turn this tragedy into a cash-cow bonanza - or to use it to mask a cynical power grab. We oppose any efforts to wipe out the people's fragile and precious privacy rights; we oppose any efforts to curtail the people's basic First Amendment rights to assemble, speak, publish, protest and organize free from government harassment and surveillance. We must now be extraordinarily vigilant against threats directed against the people - not from underground cells, but from the highest levels of government. 3. Rely on global justice to deter future attacks: The system, in the United States and worldwide, has continually denied peaceful, "legitimate" attempts by those seeking justice and freedom. Through its own reckless, violent and oppressive actions against poor people and people of color, the United States government has fueled frustration, grief and outrage here and around the world. Suffering under the boot of poverty, people around the world are becoming more and more desperate. Neither police repression at home nor U.S. bombs abroad will ease this fundamental despair; instead, they will only continue this vicious cycle of frustration and violence. Ordinary people in the United States can best deter future attacks by insisting that the U.S. government abandon its oppressive role of keeping down workers and dominating poor nations around the world. Increasingly, safety at home will require justice abroad. Intensified police crackdowns at home and military savagery abroad are not the answer; the answer is justice. We must not allow the United States to respond with bombs for Third World people and continued support for repressive dictatorships and rapacious corporations. Instead, we demand that the US respond to this crisis with efforts to meet the legitimate demands of the majority of the human family. 4. Oppose racist, anti-Arab bigotry: The media is already feeding the frenzy of anti-Arab hysteria. All people and especially African-Americans, Asian-Americans, Latinas/os and Native Americans must stand in solidarity with our Arab and Muslim sisters and brothers. Jinbonet Base21 http://base21.jinbo.net/new/show/show.php?p_cd=0&p_dv=0&p_docnbr=17775
September 12, 2001
On September 12, 2001, the day after two planes crashed into the twin towers of the World Trade Center, killing over 3,000 people, an event took place at Snow Park, in Oakland, California, organized by Van Jones, the founder of the Ella Baker Center For Human Rights, along with STORM/Standing Together to Organize a Revolutionary Movement, a group of which he was a member.
************************************************************************
Source : Ella Baker Center for Human Rights PRESS RELEASE FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE-11-01 People Of Color Groups Gather to Stand In Solidarity With Arab Americans and to Mourn the East Coast Dead (OAKLAND) Community-based organizations led by people of color will hold a "Solidarity Gathering" and candle light vigil on Wednesday night to support the Arab American community, which is suffering from a tidal wave of bigotry in the wake of Tuesday's bombings in New York City and Washington, D.C. The "Solidarity Gathering" will take place at 7 p.m. on Wednesday, September 12, 2001. The location will be Snow Park, at 19th and Harrison, in downtown Oakland. Snow Park is about three blocks from the 17th Street BART Station, near the lake. The purpose of the gathering will be to give leaders from communities of color an opportunity to speak out in support of the Arab community, while condemning the attacks and mourning the dead. Among the organizations endorsing this gathering are: the Ella Baker Center for Human Rights, Let's Get Free, Youth Force Coalition, JustAct, Bay Area PoliceWatch, Underground Railroad and STORM/Standing Together to Organize a Revolutionary Movement. "Anti-Arab hostility is already reaching a fever pitch as pundits and common people alike rush to judgment that an Arab group is responsible for this tragedy," said Van Jones, national executive director of the Ella Baker Center for Human Rights. "We fear that an atmosphere is being created that will result in official and street violence against Arab men, women and children." "No matter who ultimately is to blame for these bombings, we cannot tolerate stereotypes and blanket attacks against any ethnic group," said Raquel of STORM. "And we especially don't want Asian-American, African-American, Latino or Native American communities getting pulled into a frenzy of hatred toward our sisters and brothers. We must stand together." Though people of color in particular will be invited to speak at the gathering, but everyone is welcome. ****************************************************************************************************************** This statement represents the postion of STORM/Standing Together to Organize a Revolutionary Movement. 9-11 ATTACKS: STORM's FOUR MAIN POINTS IN RESPONSE TO THE BOMBINGS OF THE WORLD TRADE CENTER & THE U.S. PENTAGON 1. Oppose terrorism, and build people's power: We mourn the loss of life and the great pain endured by those who have suffered as a result of these attacks. Those of us who desire a world free from exploitation and oppression must rely on the consciousness, capacity and confidence of working class and oppressed people to carry out our own liberation. There are no shortcuts in this process. Acts of terrorism against civilian targets do not advance this process, but retard it. We oppose the use of terror tactics - especially such tactics against civilian populations as destructive to the fundamental aims of the liberation movement. We must organize our people to liberate themselves with the clarity of their own minds, the courage of their own hearts and the work of their own hands. 2. Oppose the narrowing or elimination of the people's democratic rights: The U.S. government must stop using the suffering of the victims of these attacks as an excuse to narrow and eliminate the people's democratic rights. We oppose any and all efforts to increase the funding and authority of U.S. police and intelligence agencies as a "solution" to this crisis. We express our disgust at the present attempts by the U.S. security and surveillance establishment to turn this tragedy into a cash-cow bonanza - or to use it to mask a cynical power grab. We oppose any efforts to wipe out the people's fragile and precious privacy rights; we oppose any efforts to curtail the people's basic First Amendment rights to assemble, speak, publish, protest and organize free from government harassment and surveillance. We must now be extraordinarily vigilant against threats directed against the people - not from underground cells, but from the highest levels of government. 3. Rely on global justice to deter future attacks: The system, in the United States and worldwide, has continually denied peaceful, "legitimate" attempts by those seeking justice and freedom. Through its own reckless, violent and oppressive actions against poor people and people of color, the United States government has fueled frustration, grief and outrage here and around the world. Suffering under the boot of poverty, people around the world are becoming more and more desperate. Neither police repression at home nor U.S. bombs abroad will ease this fundamental despair; instead, they will only continue this vicious cycle of frustration and violence. Ordinary people in the United States can best deter future attacks by insisting that the U.S. government abandon its oppressive role of keeping down workers and dominating poor nations around the world. Increasingly, safety at home will require justice abroad. Intensified police crackdowns at home and military savagery abroad are not the answer; the answer is justice. We must not allow the United States to respond with bombs for Third World people and continued support for repressive dictatorships and rapacious corporations. Instead, we demand that the US respond to this crisis with efforts to meet the legitimate demands of the majority of the human family. 4. Oppose racist, anti-Arab bigotry: The media is already feeding the frenzy of anti-Arab hysteria. All people and especially African-Americans, Asian-Americans, Latinas/os and Native Americans must stand in solidarity with our Arab and Muslim sisters and brothers. Jinbonet Base21 http://base21.jinbo.net/new/show/show.php?p_cd=0&p_dv=0&p_docnbr=17775
Source : Ella Baker Center for Human Rights
PRESS RELEASE FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE-11-01 People Of Color Groups Gather to Stand In Solidarity With Arab Americans and to Mourn the East Coast Dead (OAKLAND) Community-based organizations led by people of color will hold a "Solidarity Gathering" and candle light vigil on Wednesday night to support the Arab American community, which is suffering from a tidal wave of bigotry in the wake of Tuesday's bombings in New York City and Washington, D.C. The "Solidarity Gathering" will take place at 7 p.m. on Wednesday, September 12, 2001. The location will be Snow Park, at 19th and Harrison, in downtown Oakland. Snow Park is about three blocks from the 17th Street BART Station, near the lake. The purpose of the gathering will be to give leaders from communities of color an opportunity to speak out in support of the Arab community, while condemning the attacks and mourning the dead. Among the organizations endorsing this gathering are: the Ella Baker Center for Human Rights, Let's Get Free, Youth Force Coalition, JustAct, Bay Area PoliceWatch, Underground Railroad and STORM/Standing Together to Organize a Revolutionary Movement. "Anti-Arab hostility is already reaching a fever pitch as pundits and common people alike rush to judgment that an Arab group is responsible for this tragedy," said Van Jones, national executive director of the Ella Baker Center for Human Rights. "We fear that an atmosphere is being created that will result in official and street violence against Arab men, women and children." "No matter who ultimately is to blame for these bombings, we cannot tolerate stereotypes and blanket attacks against any ethnic group," said Raquel of STORM. "And we especially don't want Asian-American, African-American, Latino or Native American communities getting pulled into a frenzy of hatred toward our sisters and brothers. We must stand together." Though people of color in particular will be invited to speak at the gathering, but everyone is welcome.
******************************************************************************************************************
This statement represents the postion of STORM/Standing Together to Organize a Revolutionary Movement. 9-11 ATTACKS: STORM's FOUR MAIN POINTS IN RESPONSE TO THE BOMBINGS OF THE WORLD TRADE CENTER & THE U.S. PENTAGON 1. Oppose terrorism, and build people's power: We mourn the loss of life and the great pain endured by those who have suffered as a result of these attacks. Those of us who desire a world free from exploitation and oppression must rely on the consciousness, capacity and confidence of working class and oppressed people to carry out our own liberation. There are no shortcuts in this process. Acts of terrorism against civilian targets do not advance this process, but retard it. We oppose the use of terror tactics - especially such tactics against civilian populations as destructive to the fundamental aims of the liberation movement. We must organize our people to liberate themselves with the clarity of their own minds, the courage of their own hearts and the work of their own hands. 2. Oppose the narrowing or elimination of the people's democratic rights: The U.S. government must stop using the suffering of the victims of these attacks as an excuse to narrow and eliminate the people's democratic rights. We oppose any and all efforts to increase the funding and authority of U.S. police and intelligence agencies as a "solution" to this crisis. We express our disgust at the present attempts by the U.S. security and surveillance establishment to turn this tragedy into a cash-cow bonanza - or to use it to mask a cynical power grab. We oppose any efforts to wipe out the people's fragile and precious privacy rights; we oppose any efforts to curtail the people's basic First Amendment rights to assemble, speak, publish, protest and organize free from government harassment and surveillance. We must now be extraordinarily vigilant against threats directed against the people - not from underground cells, but from the highest levels of government. 3. Rely on global justice to deter future attacks: The system, in the United States and worldwide, has continually denied peaceful, "legitimate" attempts by those seeking justice and freedom. Through its own reckless, violent and oppressive actions against poor people and people of color, the United States government has fueled frustration, grief and outrage here and around the world. Suffering under the boot of poverty, people around the world are becoming more and more desperate. Neither police repression at home nor U.S. bombs abroad will ease this fundamental despair; instead, they will only continue this vicious cycle of frustration and violence. Ordinary people in the United States can best deter future attacks by insisting that the U.S. government abandon its oppressive role of keeping down workers and dominating poor nations around the world. Increasingly, safety at home will require justice abroad. Intensified police crackdowns at home and military savagery abroad are not the answer; the answer is justice. We must not allow the United States to respond with bombs for Third World people and continued support for repressive dictatorships and rapacious corporations. Instead, we demand that the US respond to this crisis with efforts to meet the legitimate demands of the majority of the human family. 4. Oppose racist, anti-Arab bigotry: The media is already feeding the frenzy of anti-Arab hysteria. All people and especially African-Americans, Asian-Americans, Latinas/os and Native Americans must stand in solidarity with our Arab and Muslim sisters and brothers.
Jinbonet Base21 http://base21.jinbo.net/new/show/show.php?p_cd=0&p_dv=0&p_docnbr=17775
DrJBHLreply 116The last refuge of a scoundrel today is to call someone a racist. @willistuder, the saying is:"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel." Samuel Johnson, April 7, 1775.
Thanks Doc, I knew about that. I used "The last refuge of a scoundrel TODAY..." What I failed to do is use the word "falsely", as in, "The last refuge of a scoundrel today is to falsely call someone a racist." That was the meaning that I intended to convey, and completely missed by omitting that word.
PoSmedleyreply 110NEW YORK CITY, NY (Oct. 26, 2004) - An alliance of 100 prominent Americans and 40 family members of those killed on 9/11 today announced the release of the 911 Truth Statement, a call for immediate inquiry into evidence that suggests high-level government officials may have deliberately allowed the September 11th attacks to occur.How the hell can you have a problem with this when all Beck talks about is how you can't trust the government? He calls the government 'Lucifer..the devil". Is he the only one that is allowed to question the government or is he the only one credible enough to question anything, in your mind?THis what I am talking about. All the people that are willing to put all their eggs in one basket when it comes to Beck.
Beck isn't talking about how you can't trust the government in these programs; he's providing a background to President Obama's associates and appointments. Calling the government "Lucifer..the devil" isn't terribly amazing; I'm sure that you've used some equivalent many times in the past.
PoSmedleyreply 110Is he the only one that is allowed to question the government or is he the only one credible enough to question anything, in your mind?
NO
Some of us are quite capable of doing our own research; he's a source, and a useful one at that. Those people are saying that some high government officials deliberately allowed the hijackers to carry out their plan. That's hilarious. You're giving me the distinct impression that you take that seriously.
In the press release I see nothing objectionable. In light of the beatings, hate graffiti and Masjid fires that occurred after 9/11, the press release was prescient. LINK.
As for the second,
I wouldn't agree with the "any and all" but would say, "illegal and unconstitutional" instead as there are unconstitutional elements in the "Patriot Act". Even with the expanded provisions (and erosion of our privacy...like eavesdropping on soldiers conversations with their families back home) the former administration refused to request warrants (as required by law) and performed illegal wiretapping. As Ben Franklin wrote, "Those who trade freedom for security have neither for long", and the former administration illustrated the fear mongering aspect in order to grab more dictatorial powers, as well as manipulate secuity threat levels to defeat John Kerry in the election. Please don't deny it. It is fact and shameful fact at that.
As for 3. in the statement, I dislike the generalities a good deal. Yes, we haven't always acted well, but certainly don't deserve the blanket condemnation approach. That irritates me.
As for 4. I absolutely agree. I believe that there are wrong doers in every race/religion/ethnic/national...whatever group. Those individuals should be caught and punished. We should also try to learn why they enter terrorist groups in order to prevent problems in the future, if possible.
i love how willistuder is preaching to us on how we should believe things should be done in america when he's in canada and has universal health care. maybe he should start a thread on how he's either happy or unhappy with the canadian government. it seems watching beck on a constant basis has made him, along with many americans, stupid.
my ex sister-in-law, who i still adore, watches beck and hannity daily and believes EVERYTHING they say. poor denise. i love her but she's not the brightest bulb in the package.
I'll say this again: That does not mean the viewpoint of someone who is not (an American citizen) is valued less than that of someone who is.
you're right! maybe that SHOULD tell me something. that something being he's a fool? the fact he's constantly quoting and referring to beck tells me a lot.
Now now John, buddy, we all know calling someone a fool is a sin and after your nice apology earlier....
I have 7 relatives living in the states....some by choice, some married to Americans (also by choice ), one has now obtained dual Oz/US citizenship.
Being a resident of the US means they no longer qualify for free Medicare back in Australia. They have the same issues with healthcare that all the rest of you have....
Being a world power....what happens in the US affects the rest of us....your financial decisions...whatever wars you start, seems we have to follow.....so...yes...it's your country...but to knock observers and long term residents for having opinions....is pretty parochial....