Seems the other thread is borked for most of us.
Now.. where were we?
Same place I am now, just uninterested in politics, of course, I didnt have cable then either.
So... payback? thats a great explanation.. and reason.
Karen almost everytime you post a reply it includes some reference to 'well they did it too" 2 wrongs don't make a right.
I agree with u the Bush admin did its shitty share of things, (again, I'm not a republican) doesn't mean a hill of beans now, its the past, and if it was wrong then...Karen, why isnt it wrong ...now?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNdyAr0q6U0
Of course we will never all agree, but he chose to stay at this church spilling over with racism for TWENTY YEARS.
I draw them from quotes, footage, records, body language etc.. I don't try to rationalize bad behaviour with more recent better behaviour. As they say, once a (insert issue here) always a (insert issue here). Its human nature. I suppose you would rather me think 'he grew out of his radical views" If so, you have WAY more faith in people than I do. Some might also describe it as gullible. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt though because its may more likely that he disavowed his communist and radical tendencies just long enough to get where he is now.
I pick my friends more carefully than that and no a communist can't be equated to a rapist and any single individual professing their communist belief's would not be of any concern to me. Adversely, do I want to live in a nation governed by communist ideology, hell no I don't so excuse me if I take offense to communists, or former communists making or having influence in any govt decisions that affect me. I also believe that when we did deal with Stalins communist regime, it was pre-cold war and I'm not sure we had a total understanding of what we got ourselves into at the time. Churchill did the same.
Frankly when your faced with two evils you choose the lesser.
Yeah and I'm sure Obama knew nothing of and didn't partake in any of underhandedness that has plagued Chicago for as long as I can remember. Does he\you really expect anyone to believe that? Two word's.. Occams razor.. given two conflicting ideas or competing theories the more simple or obvious one is usually the correct one. Same applies to the Rev. wright denial. Any reasonably minded person would find it ridiculous to believe that 1. he was never there when all the racist sermons were goven and 2. that none of it ever got thru, trickled down, made an impact. If you believe that, and I believe you do then your judgement and\ or common sense is being impaired in some capacity Po. Instead you justify it away with " I sat in a church and it didnt have any affect on me so why would it him" Well perhaps because you.. didnt believe the message. I believe he.. did. In fact, I'm convinced. It was when and ONLY when it was exposed and he was running from office that he distanced himself.. and even then it took a while and on tippy toes as to not hurt anyones feelings or burn any bridges.
Perhaps some Rev Wright youtube reruns are needed to remind u the savagely racist nature of the sermons there... and yet... he stayed.
Doesn't mean I don't see a pattern, perhaps you need to look a little harder.. or.. heres an idea... imagine none of it exists and everything is roses.
I disagree, hell democrats are lining up to get on his show, there was a black, liberal preacher on there agreeing with him earlier. I suppose he was in it for the rating too. And .. whats fun about it.. these are mega serious issues about how this country will move forward, how the fight for fundamental rights is going to come front and center. Glenn Beck..IMO.. is leading the charge to protect our liberties. I don't think implosion is in the cards any time soon, but w'ell see if your right, care to venture an implosion ETA? you seem pretty confident... a week.. a month??
Why because they left some things out.. were more good things left out than bad.. included.. so what if he left it out... like you said "he's not a reporter" surely u can dismiss a negated fact or two. Im more interested in what it does say than I am in making excuses because it didnt mention others. I think when it comes to this guy.. your pretty much OK.. with his past.... I am not. Ella Baker ive never heard of.
Whatever makes you think I wouldn't , Do you think if I could buy oil cheaper from Chavez, or north korean rice I would?.. got me bent there. I'd most definately sacrifice for what I thought was right. Thats somehow been lost in recent years. Does honor, pride, principles even exist anymore?
Well don't stop there, perhaps I did pick the wrong clip, sure has got you up in arms... perhaps u should download some full radio shows, or full TV seasons, he brings forth mountains of information that I gaurantee was researched and I gaurantee you have never heard. Perhaps you need more exposure eh mate?
I 100% diagree, he's already richer than a 100 of us will ever be, he says OVER AND OVER.. "I really hope I am wrong about this" every show... several times. I truly believe he is trying to stand up to the forces working in this country that is going to lead it in a Marxxist and Socialist direction. I also believe u know thats the direction it is heading and either don't care... or approve.
@ doc, Sorry must have missed those, I dont read every post in every thread.. and u have LOTS.
@ Xiandi.. thanks
@ Chasbo... You lost any credibilty with me quite a while ago... so.. eh.. Meh.
Damn right he is.
Po, i'll catch up with your last rant in the AM, got 4 hours coming. thanks for the rigorous debate, I do agree with and have heeded some of your points and it's good that you say what's on your mind.
A little light readin http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0co98ndFTQ
and yes I know.. Malkin is a little fearmongering asian racist loon.. I know already.
Megyn Kelly 2012!
I personally really like Beck. Obama and the rest of his radical advisors are a disgrace to our country. This is much,MUCH, worse than Bush. It's unfortunate that the Obamanoids[ my brother's term ] can't see the truth. I prefer the term Obots. What's worse is that our president can't even think for himself. And look at who Owebama surrounds himself with! Communists ,Wall street assholes , and radicals.People, just do some research on his "advisors"backgrounds. Not good. I have said my peace and will say no more on the subject. Keep strong on your beliefs vStyler. I aslo need to give some love to Lou dobbs as well. As he very much supports the constitution and our rights as Americans. Also, i respect all opinions here. Whether it be about Glenn Beck, or our government or anything else political. I believe in freedom of speech. So hate me if you want. I still love you.
Van Jones is not a FORMER communist as Po' likes to keep saying. He's made no such statement that I've been able to find. Revolutionary is just code for communist, anyway.
Remember Alger Hiss? Do you remember the Rosenberg's? It isn't a myth that there were communists in Roosevelt's government; it's a fact. The idiots allowed the Soviets to occupy Eastern Europe and enslave the population for decades until the system fell apart because it's a piece of crap way to run a country. Communists have murdered more people than anyone else in history. They are so pure sometimes, that they kill off the old and educated because they are beyond redemption, and send people to re-education camps so that they end up thinking right, like they did in Cambodia. Thanks to the peace-loving revolutionaries of the 60's, millions of people died needlessly, and now we have them in power. Is it any wonder that some people are angry now? They are starting to find out what they are in for, and they don't like it. The only ones who do are the ones that run it.
Van Jones is so stupid that he thinks carbon and carbon dioxide are pollutants. We are carbon-based life-forms, and without a decent supply of carbon dioxide, there wouldn't be life on earth. Plants NEED it; they'd die without it, they grow better with an even higher concentration than we have now. He wants to tax oil and coal to death and take the proceeds and hire people to retrofit homes and make solar panels and wind-generators; not only that, his scheme is race-based; he seems to think that people deserve a piece of the pie just because they are alive, not because they earned it or thought of something useful. He wants to eliminate the use of fossil fuels completely.
Glenn Beck is playing speeches by these people, and they convict themselves without his help. He ties the links between various people and organizations that are working together to achieve their aims. That is not bullshit, those aren't lies. If you don't like his histrionics, so what? Listen to what President Obama's unelected, and unaccountable people say. For you people that think everybody ought to just shut up and take it, nuts to you.
Viva La Revolution, right Po?
sorry to break in on this three way conversation.
beck is like the deranged guy on top of a soapbox shouting about "the end of the world". why in the f**k would I want to listen to him or anyone like him. I've seen enough of his antics to know he's a shit disturber.
never thought I would use this but, "if you're not a part of the solution, then you're part of the problem". beck is obviously a big part of the problem.
and you are correct in your assumption that I won't waste my time watching him. and that I do believe in the opposition to provide a "healthy" debate of the issues. and that neither side can be totally on the mark. I won't disagree with factual content just the method of delivery.
and so what if someone was/is a commie, they elect republicans don't they
Do you look at what you write? You WANT there to be something wrong. You WANT a conspiracy. 'JUst code for'? 'Logocal assumption'? It's like 'Being John Malkovich' in the scene where he is surrounded by all these versions of himself. I feel like I'm not having a debate or discussion but that I am knee deep in room full of little Becks screaqming 'It's code!' "He knew them so it's true!'
What the hell kinda of argument is that? 60 minutes did not survive as long as it did and win the awards it did by saying 'It's just code".
The facts you tout are half truths and lies.
By your OWN logic...Beck admitting he read Mein Kampf makes him a socilaist.
By your own logic..his excuse for reading it is bullshit because all you care about is that fact that he read it at all.
That is the so called 'logic' you keep applying when you post your clips for his videos that play like campaign ads that highlight ONLY what they want you to hear.
And you gobble it up and regurgitate it like it's GOSPEL.
The guy compares himself and likens himself to Howard Fuckin Beale. Then he says he is doing what he does to honor his God in heaven and there is nothing more important to him than going to heaven with the honor of having done that. Nothing. His 'agenda' , by his own admission, is governed by a calling from God..his version of God and his religion..for he admitted he is a 'religous nut job'. Have any of you stopped for one second to question if the God of his religion holds the same values or principlas as your own? The Mormon church (And I am NOT knocking Mormons or their religion) have a lot of ideology's and basic principals that don't quite jive or sit right with a lot of other churches and vice versa. He reveals to you that it his sole motivation, his mission to assure he goes to his heavenly father with honor based on those belifs and ideology's and you don't question them at all. He refuses to be objective when he bases what he does on strict church doctrine. Mit Romney had to seek counsel from the church when he wanted to run for office. Have you stopped to ask yourself what kind of counsel Beck might be getting? Or if or why he would need it at all and why they would need to assist him in reporting anything? Have you stopped to ask yourself if his church has an agenda or what it might be? All things you would want to know if Obama came out tomorrow and announced his decisions were all based on the same philosophy as Beck.
The scariest thing is the guy yelling and pointing 'conspiracy', 'agenda', communist', and all that shit and everyone falls in line like rabid ferrets and by the time they think to question his agenda, it's too late. The damage is done. People are hurt and ruined. Destroyed because no one stopped to say 'Is there more or just what you are telling us?" or put the same spotlight on him that he puts on everyone else.
After McCarthy, it amazes me that you are all so willing to let it happen again.
VAN JONES, THE GREEN JOBS CZAR The man's a saint, isn't he? He's fighting for social justice, job training, the environment, and against racism. He wants to raise people out of poverty. Not only that, he wants environmental justice. What is environmental justice, you might ask? " Environmental justice is the movement to ensure that no community suffers disproportionate environmental burdens or goes without enjoying fair environmental benefits."
VAN JONES, THE GREEN JOBS CZAR
The man's a saint, isn't he? He's fighting for social justice, job training, the environment, and against racism. He wants to raise people out of poverty. Not only that, he wants environmental justice. What is environmental justice, you might ask? "
The man's a saint, isn't he? He's fighting for social justice, job training, the environment, and against racism. He wants to raise people out of poverty. Not only that, he wants environmental justice. What is environmental justice, you might ask?
"
"It's the environmental racism that allowed the powerful people in society to turn a blind eye for decades to the downsides of the industrial system that got us to this point."
What is the environmental racism he's talking about?
"Well, the only reason that we have the unsustainable accounting that we have right now is because incinerators, dumping grounds, and sacrifice zones were put where poor people live. It would never have been allowed if you had to put all the incinerators and nasty stuff in rich people's neighborhoods..."
"The other thing is that the environmental justice agenda is also changing. Before, it was much stronger on demanding equal protection from environmental bad. Now we are also demanding equal opportunity and equal access to environmental good."
we are also demanding equal opportunity and equal access to environmental good."
What is the environmental good he is referring to? Money.
"We want an equal share, an equitable share, of the work wealth and the benefits of the transition to a green economy."
"....we want to make sure that the green economy is an equal-opportunity, diverse economy that can lift millions of people out of poverty."
" We don't want it to be an ecoapartheid economy where the vast majority of the owners and workers and consumers and beneficiaries of the green economy are all one race."
We don't want it to be an ecoapartheid economy where the vast majority of the owners and workers and consumers and beneficiaries of the green economy are all one race."
He is asked, "What are some of the policies that you're envisioning would create this more level green-jobs market?"
"It's a two-part answer. First you've got to have a green economy. Then you've got to make it just and inclusive. You've got to put a price on carbon; that's got to be a top priority for the new administration."
How is he going to pay for his scheme. Like any good socialist, he's going to take it from the producers of wealth.
"The minute the rules change so that we punish the polluters, so the polluters have to pay, and the people who are doing things in a clean and green way are benefited, which can happen within the year, then you're going to see a massive transfer of both public and private capital into the clean and green sector."
"We want a really aggressive cap. We want to make the polluters pay. We don't care if they pay by buying permits or paying taxes."
Just imagine how much money would be necessary to retrofit the millions and millions of homes in the country, and hire enough people to do it.
"Now, the real question is who's going to get those jobs."
"When the government moves, then capital will move, and when capital moves, then jobs will be created. We want to say very early and very loud, not after we see the big green economic boom, the real boom that's coming, but before, that the jobs question is critical, justice is critical, equal opportunity is critical, and pathways out of poverty are critical."
It's all about getting the money; that's his real concern.
"We're so clear about this because with the Silicon Valley tech boom, communities of color, poor people got nothing out of it. By the time we got into the argument, to talk about "Let's close the digital divide," the only thing Silicon Valley could think of to do is to give us recycled computers."
"We don't want, having already fought the digital divide in the '90s, to now have to deal with an eco divide."
Money, money, money. Don't earn it, don't produce something of value to someone else, just exist, and you have a right to get a piece of the pie.
The quotes are derived from an interview on the Mother Jones website. http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2008/10/qa-van-jones
If I take out all of your assumptions and read it...all I have to say is 'So?'
To go through your assumptions and debate each one would be futile. You're gone. You bought it completely. You ate the whole thing. You drank the Kool-Aid and went back for seconds. Beck has wet dreams about people like you and thanks you everytime he cashes his paycheck.
Dude...I'm just glad it's Beck you're following and not some terrorist group cause then I would be afraid and not just mournful for you or of you. Sometimes, when I go fishing, I 'll pull one into the boat that's swallowed the whole damn hook, line, and sinker. It's a bitch to get out and sometimes it does so much damage I know the fish won't survive when I release it. Beck's got you good.
I suppose similarily, we could say the same thing right back, I guess when all is said and done you are on one side and we are on the other, there is no convincing either way, no compromise. You do what liberals do best, deny deny deny and call us out as crazy tin foil hatters.
I intend to post links going forward of what I find that is interesting, questionable and controversial regarding this Admin, feel free to the same, discuss, retort...deny.
what it sounds like to me is the kind of thing's that bother me, even if I were to convince you were true.. would not...bother you. You seem to have excused, recused, and denied every point brought to the forefront.
Over the next several months I think this will be a well read and well frequented thread.. we will see who implodes first.. Beck, or Obama... Right now Obama and his cronies are spiralling downwards at light speed... while Beck surges upwards.
That.. is a fact.
Let the people speak.. so long as we still can.
That sums up a lot about Van Jones for me. Midblowingly ignorant. Great Post.
I have yet to see the irefutible proof that says the agenda of this administration is to turn our country into a society that is governed by the communist doctrine. Just a lot of speculation, inuendos, and wishful thinking by fear-mongers.
I listen to Beck, and Savage Nation, and a few others. I find it interesting sometimes, entertaining...but in the end...that's all it is. They have yet to put forth the absolute concrete eveidence. That's what it's about , right? Where this administration is going to take us? They just go on and on in circles putting the same spin on everything until it quite literally bores me. I've been interested enough to 'tune in tomorrow' and what did I get..more spin..no answers..no proof. I'm open to it.
I don't understand the problem folks have with wanting to restore jobs, pride, and balance to the people that need it. The people of the inner city's that government has abandoned. The city's filled with shells of factories and steel mills that the government let take their business over seas. The city's filled with toxic, hazrdous sites, dumps, and run down homes left behind when these business' took their money and bussiness over seas. Bussiness that cities courted, states courted to get them to build in their towns to provide jobs and then sais.."We can make cheaper over there, see ya'.
what exact proof do you seek? I realize that where there is smoke, there isn't always fire, but theres a hell of a lot of smoke here.
Does our privately own radio need to be a thing of the past before you realize... oops? It is what they plan to do.. you may not believe it, but its in the plan.
How much spending is.. too much.. for you?
How many polling stations need to be patrolled with billyclubs before u say.. something isn't right about that.
I realize that ultimate proof sometimes is hard to come by especially when the admin is asking citizens to report on their neighbors for dissenting points of view but SURELY after you add up the sum of the parts even you have to see that Beck, in some way or shape has a reason to at least keep asking questions.
Well, perhaps even you won't agree on that, but I can say this with absolute certainty, reporter, investigator, politician or entertainer, he is making a difference, he is fueling the people that DO see what is going on to stand up and fight for their rights and hold onto their liberties and I for one commend the man for doing so. You think he is a coward, I think he is corageous.
I mentioned fear of the truth at one point, I still believe that and the more I see people attempt to knock down what he is saying, the more I believe they fear him.
Frankly, I think Obama loses sleep over Beck............... as well he should.
Bump
I would think by now he would have assembled everything, put his puzzle together, and have one piece of video that explains it all, ties it all together in one neat little packaage and says here is the complete irrifutable proof. But he just keeps going on and on. He hasn't tied up anything. You all post clips, wher is the one clip..THE ONE clip that proves everything you want me to belive?
She is the name sake of the orginization Mr. Jones joined, The Ella Baker Center For Human Rights. 'An unsung civil rights worker' who 'worked' with a communist group. Pne of Beck's videos tries to smear this woman who lived from 1903 to 1986 and struggles during some of the worst times in that century for African Americans.
She was a leading African American civil rights and human rights activist beginning in the 1930s. She was a behind-the-scenes activist whose career spanned over five decades. She worked alongside some of the most famous civil rights leaders of the twentieth century, including: W. E. B. Du Bois, Thurgood Marshall, A. Philip Randolph, and Martin Luther King Jr. She also mentored such then young civil rights stalwarts as Diane Nash, Stokely Carmichael, Rosa Parks and Bob Moses.
I didn't mean to go on, John. I just wasn't sure if I mentioned that they used her in the video that YOU posted in post #34 for ME to watch as more of Beck's evidence , you would actually go back and watch the video YOU posted.
I am sure the signers of the Declaration of Independence would love to hear that.
actually , I meant, other than what Beck mentioned in short, I have never heard of the woman.